NuVinci built this really cool CVT in 2015 called the N380 which they say can take a whopping 350 Watts of power (as long as it’s not a cargo bike, then you can only get a measly 250W). I’m not going to waste your time telling you about how this thing works except to say that there are lots of REALLY BIG BALLS that have a funny little cage and some incredibly strange fluid. When the fluid is under high pressure it acts just like a solid and by changing the angle of these balls you can have a Continuously Variable Transmission that gives you essentially an infinite number of gears for only about $250 (I paid $252 shipped on sale but I can’t find it for sale anywhere right now, the retail is over $350). The N380 is the latest and greatest incarnation of the older N360 with about 20% more ‘range’. There is also the N330 released in 2015 as well, which is slightly cheaper and has less range (330%), but the exact same weight as the N380. The specs for both the N330 and N380 can be found on Fallbrooktech’s website here. The N380 CVT weighs in at about 5.4lbs and looks a lot like a hub motor that you will have to lace up yourself, which is a major PITA that everyone should suffer through at least once in their life.
![IMG_20160105_090122791[1]](https://electricbike-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/img_20160105_0901227911.jpg)
The N380 not only has the biggest balls, it also ships with the longest nuts I’ve ever seen. They’re so big I can’t stop staring.
I still feel like the Nexus 3 IGH (full review here) is the ultimate trail riding IGH for fat bikes. It costs about $125 shipped for everything and besides the PITA of lacing the rim up, the install is a real snap. I’ve been beating the hell out of my Nexus 3 in plenty of gnarly riding and the hub has made really some strange noises (that sound like the smoke monster from Lost) but it has yet to fail. IGH are particularly suited for fat bikes as you don’t have to worry about sand and snow and ice mucking up your derailleur.
The N380 is a totally different beast than the Nexus 3. When you do something that you’re really not supposed to do (like start moving from a stop with full power on a 20 degree uphill grade) instead of getting the grinding gears the balls will just slip a little. This is not a real problem unless things inside get too hot, the magic fluid leaks out or something really breaks. The N380 is rated for 350W(max) but I am running it full-bore with a 750W nominal BBS02 at 59v which puts out well over 1300 watts peak when I really torque on it (and I do). So let me get this right, you are running this N380 at 4x the power that it is allowed to run this CVT at? Yep, I don’t care, I live to destroy your delicate ebike products. *evil laugh*
The Lekkie ring will help make the best chain line you can get with this setup. You will need to space it out to clear the intrusive chainstay. I had about 5 mm of chain clearance on a 4″ tire.
So what will happen if I break the CVT and I want it replaced? The jokers in the support dept of NuVinci already know me by name (oh yeah that fricking guy who keeps stealing our search engine rankings and loves to hear himself type?) and will most likely laugh me off the phone. That’s OK because I’m used to it. I bought this almost new car once and then after 5 years and 60,000 miles it wasn’t running right so I took it back to the dealer and asked for it to be fixed under ‘warranty’. They took one look at the oil filter which was a OEM filter and asked if I had ever changed the oil. I said, “What you have to change the oil? You gotta be kidding me, isn’t that covered under warranty?” They said NO and I decided at that moment to NEVER BUY A NEW CAR AGAIN. It’s all a scam and they don’t even give you free oil filters. Long story short I learned my lesson and since then I have learned to religiously change my oil every 59,999 miles without fail. (true story)
The hardest part of the N380 install was getting the gearing just right between the BBS02 and the CVT. Someone who was crazy on the internet who got my email address said that they were using BBS02\N380 combo with a 34T on the front and a 18T on the rear cog so I tried that first. It was geared WAY too low so I switched it around to a 42T Lekkie Chainring on the front (with 4mm spacers) and a 22T cog on the rear which for singletrack trail riding is perfect. If you want to ride only on the road and not in the woods then you will need to subtract 4 teeth from the cog and use a 18T cog to get the highest pedal-able top speed. With the 42T/22T combo I could climb 20-degree grades with ease and still get darn close to 30 mph on the flats (but RPM’s at top speed were too fast to comfortably pedal along with). For all you spandex-clad superheroes with a 42T/18T combo you will be able to pedal along comfortably at 30mph and even on the downhills.
![IMG_20160105_090027114[1]](https://electricbike-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/img_20160105_0900271141.jpg)
You can’t put the aluminum cog spacer on the CVT side because then the chain can hit the adjusters.
I had a lot of problems doing the install for the N380 that I’ll go into detail about here. I couldn’t actually find a manual for the old manual twisty shift system, as everything I could find on the N380 seemed to be focused on the new electronic Harmony system. Getting the adjuster to line up properly took me a few 25 tries and a lot of hair (because I was pulling it all out). The tricky part is that the adjuster has to have the full range, but you can’t easily tell if it has the whole range because it will only turn about 1/2 way around until it gets stuck and you have to spin the axle a little so it can go the rest of the way. After a lot of finagling, I got it mostly figured out. The other problem is that it is counter-intuitive which cable goes where for the higher\lower gears. I accidently got them swapped around so that when I want to go fast the cute little orange plastic dude is climbing the hill. Unfortudently I had already clipped the cables and terminated them so I had to swap them around, then one of them was cut too short *arrrrrrgggg*. In the end, I cobbled it together and you can’t tell from the pictures how bad it really is. I also had to space out the Lekkie Bling-Ring to clear the intrusive chainstay and I had to build a spacer out of ground down washers held in place by hot glue so I could mount it properly. The Lekkie gave me a very clean chain line and I only had one chain derailment on my third time out. The heavy KMC single speed BMX chain will probably never break from these measly power levels.
My favorite part is the tiny orange rubber biker trapped in my shifter on the eternal hill of damnation. Don’t worry little man, I’ll rescue you…
So now that I’ve tried the N380 and a BBS02 would I recommend it? The problem is that the N380 is much more suited to the 1000W BBSHD which can generate some real power at normal pedaling cadences. The BBS02 needs to spin pretty fast on anything steeper than a 5-degree grade or you risk frying your controller. The BBSHD was born to run at full power (and more) at normal pedaling cadences so you don’t have to downshift so much when you hit hills. The biggest problem is that the BBSHD is going to shred this little CVT in no time flat (1500W+), and I even feel bad about using it at BBS02 power levels (Someone should call the People for the Ethical Treatment of Bicycle Components). There was also 3 major disadvantages to this CVT
- When you are in a higher gear and the CVT is under serious load and you are not holding the twist grip tight the N380 tends to slip into a lower gear on its own. I found this to be pretty annoying. So annoying that I’m actually taking the time to write about it.
- When the CVT is under serious load you can’t actually shift into a higher gear which is also really annoying (see #1).
- It’s expensive and heavy (wait that’s two) and a pain to install, expect to waste half a day on it (and that’s three making a total of 5 major disadvantages, not just 3).
For singletrack trail riding you don’t really need an infinite number of gears, you basically only need 3 and you just adjust your pedaling cadence to fit the situation. This all changes when you are riding on the road, I found when riding on a normal road at higher speeds (like 25+mph) that I really liked being able to adjust my gearing to get the perfect pedaling cadence. I can see how this would be massively appealing to road cyclists from a comfort perspective. The problem is that I don’t know any self-respecting road cyclist who would be willing to trade the eternal perfect pedaling cadence for an extra 5 lbs on his bike.
The N360 is old news, this 5-year-old CVT is now obsoleted by the N380 and N330
Every weight weenie will have to make that decision on their own accord. The Nexus 3 added about 1lb to the weight of my bike but the N380 adds almost 5lbs.
Update: I met a guy who burned through two N360’s then also caused a N380 to leak by running them with a BBSHD with default Luna programming. If you want to try to make this work make sure your throttle is set to Speed mode (not current) and the Start Current is set to 1% on both the PAS and throttle page then maybe, just maybe your N380 will survive. If you’re using a BBSHD you might want to opt for the heavier duty N171 CVT. After a year of abuse with my BBS02 my N380 also started to leak, but still seems to work fine.
Ride On.
How depressing it must be for the folks at Fallbrook Tech to do a google search for ‘Nuvinci N380‘ and have my crappy website come up in fourth place. There has to be some way they can argue to get me removed from all Google search engine rankings. Maybe some caring reader here can start a petition. I’ll be the first to sign.
As soon as I destroy this CVT I’ll write all about it right here (unless they give me another one for free to destroy just to shut me up) : ________________________
ElectricBike-Blog.com 
Diamond Back with Xtracycle Freeradical longtail cargo, Nuvinci n360 and BBSHD 1000w. Nuvinci under rates their drives. Works great.
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I’m sold, this spring maybe I’ll throw the BBSHD on this build.
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I’m wanting to put this hub on my Edgerunner with 750W Grin Cycle Stoker. So can you shift into an easier ‘gear’ while cranking out 750W climbing up a hill? What about going into a harder gear – say accelerating from a stop, can I shift into a harder ‘gear’ while pedaling and applying power? Looking for something better than our current derailleur setup.
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You can shift into a higher granny under power, but not the other way. You need to cut power to get to a slower pedalling cadence.
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Great review, I think I will stick to my Nexus 3! I have a Nuvinci 171 on the shelf, but it’s dedicated to that cargo bike I promised myself I would build someday and it looks like that’s where it belongs!
For Nexus and Sturmey Archer users who are still using the steel Bafang 46t chainwheel, like me, this guy has 26t cogs for sale: http://bikesmithdesign.com/cogs/index.html
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Several years ago, a lot of people were saying the (Harmony) autoshift version of the Nuvi was going to change things in some dramatic way. FB was partnered with Bosch, and I think the products are on the market, but no one seems to care. I do get the sense that Nuvi is not catering to the DIY market. They really should work out exactly who needs this product. Maybe it’s great on those 200 watt Eurobikes, just to get up hills. But in the US it is going to be a workhorse, performance kind of thing.
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im about to lace the N380Se to a 19″x2.5″ 32 hole moto rim for a motorized bicycle thats powered by a 7.5hp 212cc 4 stroke with a torque converter. fingers crossed the N380Se can handle it.
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BTW, the big axle nuts are a great idea! With a pair of those I can use a light/cheap swingarm stand to park my bike in the garage like other dirt bikes. Using the right adapters you can raise either the front or the back wheels off the ground, or both with a pair of stands.
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I’m just setting up a n171b on a lunacycle cargo bike we’ll see how it goes, I have the twisty shifter manual if you want a copy or your probably sorted anyway.
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I’m set. Thanks.
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I have a BBS02 with the N380 and Harmony H8 Controller. The goddamn controller won’t work and keeps flashing red/green on power up. I don’t suppose you know anything about this error? Installed it yesterday and I can’t for the life of me get the thing to calibrate.
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Contact Fallbrooktech support, they are unspeakably awesome.
Karl
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I’ve been using the N360 on my Deadeye Monster equiped with the BBS02 for about 3 years without incident. Swapped chainrings and cogs around quite a bit too. The only thing I make sure I don’t do is start from a dead stop with the motor. I will admit that I have done some damage to the rim while doing bunny hops due to the weight. But, overall I’m extremely happy with the performance. Keeping the chain line straight solves a lot of problems. And I never have to worry about missing gears at critical moments. It’s very reliable.
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I run a N360/BBS02 750w with the retro fit harmony shift kit which by the way was much easier to fit and set up than the cable shift I first used.Have had no issues with shifting and no problems with the hub, I regulary see 1250w up hills on my speedict mercury smart phone readout. I ride light trails and road use my gearing is 42T x 16T I love how the Nuvinchi smooths out the non torque sensored Banfang motor.
If it went bang would not hesitate replacing it with the N380.
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I have a N360 and a BBS02. Ordered a 48T/20T. Do you think I should change to a 42T. I do mostly street with a few hills but mostly flat.
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Should be fine.
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I have a N360 and a BBS02. Ordered a 48T/20T. Do you think I should change to a 42T. I do mostly street with a few hills but mostly flat.
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Nice article Karl…i hate that flimsy gear shifter thing…always breaks and feels like a cheap toy….way prefer the shimano shifting mechanisms.
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Eric, I have two n360’s and they are still going strong, so not sure what problems you have had with them.
The problem I see with them is they are too heavy and not as efficient as a Shimano. They are a great drive system for flat areas like the beach.
What we need is somebody to make a strong three speed internal gear system that would be perfect for the all those mid-drives.
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Dave, I think Eric was referring to the plastic bodied controller, not to the actual hub itself.
Cheers, Bob.
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“The N380 not only has the biggest balls, it also ships with the longest nuts I’ve ever seen. They’re so big I can’t stop staring.”
LOL, laughing is good for you 😉 Thanks for the laugh Karl!
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I also have a question about needing a gear controller with the N360 and the BBS02. Is it needed?
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I don’t use one. I’m not sure it would really help that much. The gear sensor is mostly to keep your gears from grinding, with the N360 there are no gears to grind. I recommend people go with the N380 not the N360 if they can.
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I have a gear change sensor for my BBS02/N360 setup and I think it is very good. I have basic cable shifter system. When I go to change up under load, it feels very heavy until the sensor cuts the motor, then it moves smoothly, the motor cuts back in after about half a second, which seems a long time on a climb, but definitely gives a smoother shift. The same is true of my mountain bike with BBS02/9 speed rapid rise XT rear derailleur. A rider will be pushed to generate 200 watts, and will normally ease the pressure when changing gear, so imagine what the poor gearbox, derailleur or CVR has to put up with if you have a mid drive unit pushing out 500 watts plus, with nothing to tell it to ease off when you change gear or ratio. You wouldn’t change gear on a manual car without using the clutch.
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Does harmony system need a separate power source? Is there site, manual, anything for how to install?
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I’ve never used the Harmony system, sorry.
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My Origin 8 came with a N360 and 350w eRad mid drive. The n360 started leaking the moment I took it on a steep trail (very steep) and broke a few rides later on another short but steep hill. I’m using the lowest “gear” possible when climbing. Got a N380 replacement under warranty and it started leaking on my second ride, long steep hills with short very steep hills. What can I do to stop breaking these hubs? I’m thinking about replacing the front sprocket to lower the gearing. I live in the mountains and don’t need high flat speeds. Will this be sufficient to save my next N380 or am I just going to break it too? Thanks.
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I rode a heavily loaded, solar charged, trike over the Rockies this summer. I used a BBS02 and a N380. I had no trouble with either.
With the BBS02 I used the PAS, I didn’t have the throttle connected. The biggest issue I faced had to do with power generation. In the hills I did have some concern at times. However, I made my ride without ever plugging in.
Luna suggested that I pack a spare controller for the BBS02; however, I never used it.
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No good. The new n380 started leaking the moment I hit the hills. Nuvinci may be OK for highway hills, but not trail hills.
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Have you written that up anywhere? I would love to read about it. I have been daydreaming of a solar-charging, Big Fat Dummy run by a BBSHD. I found my way here wondering how Nuvinci would play with that system, but the article reminds me of the all the fiddling around the Nuvinci requires with no guarantee that I won’t make it cry magic go-juice until it fails. I think another drive train is in order, but I’m still very curious about solar recharging of your trike.
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If 34/18 (1.89) is way too low how can 42/22 (1.91) be perfect?
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FWIW I don’t think building a wheel is any kind of a PITA. It’s therapeutic!
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What about belt drive? Why still chain, lol.
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Hey Karl. Great page. I’ve been running a BBS02 with an n360 for almost 3 years now, and I have a few observations. Had to replace the freewheel pawl assembly a few months back as it was slipping. The chain broke one time and I ended up 3D printing a replacement dust cover to fix the carnage that ensued (https://github.com/mdshw5/nuvinci-spare-parts). Envolio/Fallbrook have sent me free replacement parts for the shift interface, and are really great to work with. Now, after running 750+ Watts nominal for a few years, adding 3k+ miles of mixed commuting and trail riding per year, the thing still works. It’s developed a rattling noise while freewheeling at underdriven ratios, but still runs smooth. I’m running 46t/18t on a 29er, so usually take care not to lug the thing until I’m up above 10-15mph and keep that motor spinning fast. Thanks for sharing your experience with the community, and let us know when your hub finally dies (or send it to me and I can kill it).
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My N380 started leaking about a year ago so I swapped it out with a Nexus 3. It went for a long time and I abused the crap out of it.
The people at Fallbrook are amazing to deal with.
Karl
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Hey I tend to pedal the shit out of my bbs02 with a 52 tooth. I am already averaging about 25-28mph with a 40mph all time top speed on flat. Would this work well with the 52? part of me wants to go all the way and figure out a gearing for this with a 60 tooth. What do you think?
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I would not go bigger than a 52T. You risk the Nylon gear when you gear the BBS02 too high.
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I have a 380 wich cranks and slips when starting pedalling. Bike has 10000 kilometers ridden, just bought it. I can see oil marks on one side, i guess a seal has failed. Could the oil leak be the problem, or is some component inside damaged. Are those hubs fixable, or do i need to replace it? Thanks.
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You can replace the freewheel mechanism that’s underneath that cover if the “slipping” is actually the pawls failing to engage with the freewheel body. Otherwise if it’s a “smooth” slipping you’ll have to contact NuVinci to find a solution as the drive mechanism isn’t user serviceable. I’ve experienced both types of failure after similar mileage.
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Have a TerraTrike Recumbent Trike, pushing at or near 400 pounds on paved or hard pack roads. Bafang M625 with 46T plus a NuVinci n380 with a 20T. Am wondering if perhaps a 23T in the rear would be better than a 20T?
Did find a 42T chanring for the M625 today.
Of the few times I ran out of battery, the trike was very hard to peddle without any assist.
Before a friend got this M625 for me (1KW motor) was at a 36T to 20T and was in peddle bliss with an Efneo. Problem came when riding with him after I survived a bad Covid Pneumonia, I could not peddle as fast anymore. E-assist has been a blessing, and hoping the M625 cargo motor will last. And am pushing maximum load on the trike, or nearly there.
What would you y’all recommend for a heavy rider? Have a 46T on, a 42T sitting here. Would have to locate a larger cog for the n380 if was suggested.
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I recently installed a Nuvinci 330 hub for my Bafang BBS02. I’m also running with 56v batteries, a little more than the 48v or 52v setups. Don’t have any problems so far even though it’s been noted that the 330 hubs aren’t strong enough for ebikes.
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