About 9 months ago Luna sent me one of their first BBSHD Ludicrous Controllers to test. At that time I had smoked a plastic gear running 65 Amps at 52v in about 5 minutes on a BBSHD so Eric and I had no idea how much power we could run through the BBSHD. I spent several months trail riding at 40 amps, then bumped it up to 46 amps and then finally to 50 amps. The drive unit seemed to perform very well on the trails at 50 amps so I moved my Ludicrous controller to my commuter street build, Burning Chrome. I tested it for another 5 months pegging the thumb throttle and running the BBSHD continuously for 10-20 minutes a time at full throttle. Although I expected something to fail, nothing did. On my last trip to the Lunacycle shop in LA, I purchased another Ludicrous controller and mounted it on my Phat Phuk snow bike and decided to start singletrack testing it at 60 amps. At this point, I’ve ridden the Ludicrous controller at 60 amps harder than I’ve ever ridden any drive unit in my life for several months every single day without any drive unit failures. This article is about how to reprogram your Ludicrous controller to 60 amps, and how to weasel one out of Lunacycle without having to buy a brand new $2500 ebike and why you would be absolutely batsh!t crazy not to.
The 30T Mighty Mini is the only game in town if you want to not shred your internal gears while still getting 60 Amps
So the thing that is really funny is how I didn’t really notice that the 60 Amp Ludacris controller was much more powerful than I remembered the 50 Amp Ludicrous controller to be until I went back to riding the 50 Amp controller. I was blown away at the performance difference between the two programming differences when trying to plow through deep snow. To be perfectly clear, when you purchase the Ludicrous controller it is programmed for 50 amps, and if you reprogram it for 60 Amps then it is ABSOLUTELY not covered under warranty. At 60 Amps you are pretty much guaranteed to destroy your bike parts (freehub, chains, cassettes) and all I can say is that it is totally worth it for the massive power and acceleration you will gain. Top speed will stay about the same with the amperage increase, maybe increase a little bit but not more than a couple mph.
Yes, you really can plow through this much heavy wet snow, just don’t stop because it’s hard to get going again
The BBSHD Ludicrous controller is programmed with the exact same software as the stock BBSHD controller. Instructions for programming the controller can be found here and the guide for programming settings can be found here. I only run Karl’s special sauce on all my builds and I can say with some certainty that you will NOT be disappointed with those settings. If you are running any settings other than Karl’s Special Sauce I can’t say that you’re not going to trash your BBSHD the first time you touch the throttle because I haven’t tested this controller with any other settings (including the stock Lunacycle programming that it comes with).
When you load the settings from a stock Ludicrous controller you will see that the Max Amps is set to 25 Amps. The controller doubles that setting so that means it is really limited to 50 Amps. If you change that number to 30 and flash the controller you are telling it that you want it to run at 60 Amps Max instead (30 x 2 = 60). At this time there is no way to get more power than that out of your Ludicrous controller. When Eric released the controller we spent a long time talking about what we should program it at, at 50 Amps was what we had both tested it extensively at and neither one of us had suffered any failures, even while towing his $200,000 Audi R8 down the street. (true story) For comparison, you can buy 666 $300 rusty but trusty Subaru winter rats for the same price as one Audi R8. I don’t really care about making money, that’s why I run this silly blog churning the music grinder for peanuts while Eric is over in China taking over the entire ebike universe.
When I talk about all these power levels the reality is that when the controller is set to about 27 Amps in the programming software you’re only going to get about 50 Amps actual at the controller. There are a lot of factors that contribute to this, not the least of which is the voltage and power loss from the connectors and wires. When you change the programming from 25 to 30 Amps you’re really only gaining about 7-8 Amps of power, but I can assure you that the increase of 7 or 8 amps on an ebike is very noticeable (think 375-475 Watts). I don’t have a decent data logger so I can’t tell you the exact power increase that the programming change nets you.
For $200,000 you can buy 666 crappy frame-already-rusted cars just like mine, or one custom R8 like Eric’s *sigh*
If you chose to run your BBSHD Ludicrous controller at 60 Amps there is a couple things you should absolutely do.
- Make sure all your connectors are spark arresting XT90‘s : These are designed to take 90 Amps of power. You’ll melt the 45 Amp Anderson Power Poles or at the very least you’ll limit how much power your BBSHD gets because there just isn’t that much surface area that contacts with the 45 Amp Anderson PP connectors. Learning to solder the XT90’s is something of a pain, I advise you use lots of Flux and use a very hot gun (but don’t melt the connectors). I just don’t trust the XT60’s at these power levels.
- Your power cables should be 10 Gauge or thicker : Don’t skimp on the power cables. Use decent real copper multi strand 10 gauge or thicker cables. The thicker your cables are the less voltage drop you’ll get due to the lower resistance of the wires. I buy it by the 250 foot rolls on ebay as 10 gauge zipcord speaker wire for about $50 shipped right here (about 20 cents a foot). I prefer the mostly all black rather than the black/red which is less stealthy.
- Use a smaller chainring : The larger your chainring is, the more stress you put on the internal gears. Run 60 Amps with the stock giant steel chainring on the BBSHD and you will have internal gear failures. I’d bet my favorite hamster on it.
- Don’t peg the throttle for extended periods : Although the PAS on the Ludicrous controller can run at power level 9 forever (~1500W) without melting the nylon gear if you peg the throttle all the way down with the controller programmed for 60 amps on a steep hill or through deep powder you are asking for trouble. Think toaster over for a nylon gear. The BBSHD does not shed heat that quickly and remember that it was only designed and sold to run at 30 amps.
- Use the right size pack : Your BMS should be able to deliver 50 Amps continuous. I’m not aware of any frame pack or mini cube pack on the market now that will do this. Most larger packs that are 6 or 7P like any large triangle packs should do this. When in doubt check with whoever you bought the pack from. I recommend 25R, GA or PF cells for high power.
- Don’t expect any kind of warranty : If you want any kind of warranty with a Lunacycle ebike then you have to pay for it (and it isn’t cheap). If you reprogram for BBSHD Ludicrous controller to run at 60 Amps your expensive warranty is VOID. Don’t be a jerk and lie to Lunacycle about reprogramming it if you have a failure. The folks at Luna are incredibly generous and friendly if you’re willing to be honest with them. However, if they find out you are lying to them, they absolutely will not deal with you anymore. Don’t be one of ‘those guys’. Honesty is always the best policy, unless you’re dealing with the police in which case don’t ever say anything, ever (that’s the best advice for career criminals that you’ll ever hear).
If you want to ride up on the snow you’ll need a very fat rear tire and tons of power. Go fast. Don’t stop.
So you might be one of the many people out there who are like “I really love the idea of a 60 Amp BBSHD but I’m just too damn cheap to buy a whole $2500 ebike from Lunacycle, what can I do?” Eric has been known to sell the Ludicrous controller for $250 each to people who are close friends of his or very loyal to the Lunacycle cause. Right now there is a bunch of trolls on Endless-Sphere and Endless-Sphere Facebook that are working very hard to discredit Eric and all things Lunacycle. If you verbally and vocally stand up to these people in public forums then you will earn a lot of brownie points with Lunacycle (I can’t do it because it’s a waste of my precious time and I cry too easily). If you do a custom build with a Lunacycle kit can also get $50 worth of Lunacycle store credit (instructions here) if you post pictures of your build and some decent text on the electricbike.com forum here (one build credit per customer). Also, I will point out that the electricbike.com forum is a much nicer place to hangout than Endless-Sphere is and people don’t just spend all their time complaining and calling each other names. I stopped reading Endless-SphereDrama many months ago because of the amount of harassment and insults I was being subjected to on a regular basis. I only put up with that amount of abuse from my own child, not from complete strangers still living in their parents basement in New Jersy (ouch). Will posting a build report and defending Lunacycle on the public forums be enough goodwill to allow me to purchase a $250 Ludicrous controller? I just don’t know, probably not.
If I wanted to get my hands on a Ludicrous controller without brown-nosing, I’d go for the 2016 KHS 3000 4 Seasons with a large triangle pack. That is the best snow ebike on the market right now for $2953 + shipping IMHO
Eric is a fickle guy. On one hand, he seems to be one of the most loyal friends I have ever had and is far more generous than anyone I’ve ever met in my entire life. On another hand, he is also attacked and befriended constantly by ‘industry spies’. Almost everyone on the ebike forums are trying to make money somehow selling motors, kits, controllers or batteries. Some of them have online stores, but a lot of them are just moonlighting with a small web store on the side. Almost all of these people see Lunacycle as a huge threat because he can buy product direct from China in massive quantities that the little guy just can’t compete with. Is Lunacycle really the Walmart of ebikes? Whenever I walk into Walmart I always feel really gross because the Walton family represents everything I despise about capitalism. Eric treats his employees very well (I met most of the Luna crew 2 months ago), and he pays them all a fair and livable wage. Will he drive everyone else out of business? It’s hard to say, but Luna has been nothing but awesome for American ebike consumer so from that point of view alone, why wouldn’t you want to support them. Sure you can get BBSHD’s from Alibaba for $100 less (after shipping) than Lunacycle, but considering that Luna won’t sell any of their custom chainrings to non-Luna customers I have to wonder why you would want to. If you’re trying to get a Ludicrous controller for the BBSHD you will absolutely need to prove that you are a very loyal customer. There is no way in hell he would ever sell one of his precious Ludicrous controllers that he spent several months and thousands of dollars to develop and build to someone who bought their drive unit from China. Would you?
If you really want to help Eric out and impress him to no end then write some decent articles for electricbike.com like Ron (spinningmagnets) does. Eric has offered $200 in Luna store credit for anyone that writes a decent article with pictures that he can post on his blog, electricbike.com . He doesn’t care if it’s promoting Lunacycle products or if it’s about something completely different. Writing articles is not that hard, I find it incredibly rewarding. I’m sure as heck not going to pay you to write for this blog, and I can honestly say that I spend at least 5 hours or more writing every single post that takes you only 2 minutes to read. $200 for 5 hours of work is about $40 an hour which is a decent wage by any stretch of the imagination ( if I was smart I’d just scrap electricbike-blog and just write for electricbike.com ). If I can do it, so can you. Whatever you think you know about me, I can guarantee it’s all wrong. I’m just a dysfunctional guy who knows deep in his heart that he is a total sham and hopes to hell that no one else is ever able to find out. Ever.
The BBSHD and the 60 Amp Ludicrous controller have redefined what I thought was possible in the deep powder
So there you go, write one build report and one article for electricbike.com and a little schmoozing and you’ll probably be able to maybe end up with a $250 Ludicrous controller. I’d call that something worth working for, and I’m really the laziest guy I know.
Industry spies need not apply.
Ride On.
Note: all the pictures of the BBSHD controller in this article have the older style case, not the custom machined aluminum Ludicrous cases that are much better at heat dispersal. Rest assured that all the controllers I’ve been testing are indeed Ludicrous controllers, just ones that were built before they custom case was designed and machined.
UPDATE : After 2 weeks of running the BBSHD at 60 amps the nylon gear failed. I ended up switching my programming on my fatbikes back to 50 amps and was pretty sad about it. If you want to run your Ludicrous controllers at 60 amps make sure you have spare Nylon gears on hand because they tend to go out of stock from time to time and I can’t find anyone who sells them other than Lunacycle (even in China).
ElectricBike-Blog.com 
Another great article Karl!
I have a request – is there ANY way you can get a hold of a bike for testing that has one of Alan’s 72v controllers installed? (Either the sinewave or the Grin PhaseRunner).
Here’s why I am asking – you are one of the few people in the world in a position to do a real comparison between that (BBSHD running at 72v and 40-50amps), and the Tangent Ascent. I remember you mentioning that everything – even the BBSHD at 50 amps – seemed boring and sedate after riding with the Tangent Ascent. And although I’ve not ridden the Ascent yet – I dream to one day soon – I can kind of imagine what you’re saying because the way the power comes on in the BBSHD is rather smooth, creamy, and progressive. Not animalistic, how you and others have described the Tangent Ascent (and kind of like how the power comes on more aggressively in my Kuberg FreeRider).
While 50 amps, and 60 amps, at 52v is fantastic to be able to get out of the ‘HD (and very importantly, whilst keeping the stock-looking controller cover attached to the motor, no eyesore of an external controller), I wonder if running it at 72v is what’s really needed to unleash the animal within the BBSHD. And you are in a unique position to be able to compare both of them directly.
Alan, are you listening? Send Karl a 72v bike, stat!!!
Now I’m off to hunt some Luna-bashing trolls. Have one in mind already…
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I’m open to testing the ERT controller, but I’m not that interested in buying one. If he is willing to ship me one to test and ship back I’m happy to do that. I’ll send him an email and see what I can arrange.
Karl
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Did this ever happen?
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Hey bud.. I had a last production batch of tangents, and recently parted ways on ebay. I just bought another BBSHD from Luna. I could not deal with the 80’s pager of a display, sound, and fickleness. I personally did not feel that much extra power at the wheels.
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XT60 is literally designed and rated for 60 amps it’s right in the name. And they have a large safety factor so they can take significantly more than 60 continuous and even more than that peak.
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And another question – you pretty much answered it here, I had been wondering about this but didn’t know the answer as I haven’t gotten the Ludicrous yet.
So you use the same program and connect the same way to the BBSHD, just like usual and described in your earlier blogs. I was wondering how it could work because the FIRST thing I did, upon first programming my first BBSHD, was to load Karl’s special sauce settings. Then the SECOND thing I did, was try to set the amps limit to MORE than 30 (say, oh, 99 sounded nice), but I saw those smart bastards at Bafang wouldn’t let me change it to anything above 30!
So I was assuming that they’d also hacked the software (firmware?) to allow changing this setting to 50amps for the Ludicrous. Now I understand, everything is doubled so 25=50 and 30=60. Yes?
Oh, and did I mention I really want you to get your hands on a 72v bike from ERT, to compare against the Tangent Ascent??? 😉
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Does the new Ludicrous 50 amp controller you purchased have the larger cooling fins like on the prototype you tested?
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The ones I have are old the old cases. Any Ludicrous controller you get should have the shiny silver aluminum case with the bigger fins.
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Hey Karl,
Thanks for continuing your blog; always interesting.
I’m getting hell from one mod about defending Eric (who I haven’t met, but has sold me great products). I’m about over ES too.
In CA and too litigious for me to want to go over 32 mph so BBS02 or 1000w hub is fine; if I need to go faster, I’ll purchase a 600 Suzuki and be protected legally.
Bob
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what a article, nothing like honest upfront manipulation 😉 I can respect that !! Luna is my go to shop !
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Thanks Carl super relevant and interesting stuff! Makes a lot of sense to me. zactly what I would do(60a). Please write on how to serve up an industry spy without being identified as a stool pigeon! Kidding..not . Also Haibike riders can fool their controllers for higher top speed now.
it’s some sort of dongle that halves the speed input thereby doubling top speed cut off.Double down on bbshd amps you say? probably just a coincidence.
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I’m not going to get involved with the industry spying stuff. They know who they are.
Haibike I believe only runs at around 400W nominal so although you might be able to fool it into higher top speed it’s not going to go that much faster than 20mph even downhill.
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Hi Karl,
Great article as always! How does the Ludicrous compare to the E.R.T.’s 72v 50Amp 3000W Ext BBSHD Controller that you reviewed recently? Different beast?
Thanks
Steve
Ps A friend is doing 40-45km on the flat with Haibike dongle. I believe also that if you have no dongle then simply putting the speed sensor magnet on your crank arm also lets you go faster!
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Karl,
Ignore my last post. Having reread your last article, I can see that you already made a comparison between the 2 controllers! Doh! Can I ask instead which controller is easier to install and works/syncs better with the BBSHD? I feel I need to spend some Xmas pennies….
Steve
Ps 70cms is forecast overnight, so hoping to get the chance to finally try out Bud and Lou, which I have managed to squeeze onto my very cheap and fragile feeling fatbike!
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With a Luna 30amp BBSHD, Luna Eclipse, and SunRace MS3 I can easily snap a chain with improper shifting technique or if the terrain causes the chain to change to the wrong gear at the wrong time. Choosing power over reliability for fun at what point do you stop? Changing a masterlink or entire chain in the middle of a ride in the snow and cold in the middle of no where is not so fun.
That being said, If I wanted one and Eric sold me one. Do you have to buy a new type of battery to handle the extra current or would my might mini 6amp 30q battery work or could I use use my 17amp triangle? How does the extra power draw affect distance on the battery and battery life? If Eric is talking with the Chinese, could he talk about a belt drive system to an internal hub gear system… something to improve drivetrain reliability especially when we start talking 60amps to the motor??
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Belt drives require a custom frame.
You will need to use the triangle. Small battery packs and frame packs will not deliver 50 amps.
Karl
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The GA cells are rated at 3.5a continuous, so 14×3.5=49a, or am calculating this completely wrong?
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Err, the GA cell in the Shark frame pack is rated at Max. continuous discharge current: 10A. How do I calculate continuous amps a pack can supply? I believe the BMS Eric uses peaks at 50A.
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Brett you’re calculating them wrong. They are rated for 8Amps and it’s the P rating you multiply by. Most large triangles are 7P packs * 8 = 56 Amps.
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Karl, do you know if the most recent Luna BMS is still limited to 30a continuous? I suspect so as I’ve yet to see more than 30a drawn though I’ve got to the controller set for 50(25×2).
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/05/18/where-have-you-been-all-my-life-7lb-13-5ah-52v-ga-shark-pack-from-lunacycle-reviewed/
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You could get a second 30Q and run it parallel. 60 amp continuous capable. Just not great range
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I realize everyone’s experience is different, but I wouldn’t worry about snapping chains with a 30 amp HD. I’ve ridden mine hard & fast, up steep hills, hot & cold weather, shifting under pressure and generally not being kind to my $500 REI bike – yet never broken a chain, cassette, derailleur, anything. The HD just doesn’t have that kind of power out of the box.
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Yes at 30 amps, stuff doesn’t break that often. Cheap bikes also have much heavier components which last much longer than expensive bikes.
At 50-60 amps stuff seems to break fairly often, I replace what breaks with cheap, heavy components.
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For most flowing single-track I rarely see more than 25a peaks. Karl churns snow, very different than dry SoCal dirt, even climbs with my lightweight ass and/or I just don’t push it that hard. The controller on the Ludicrous has yet to get more than warm during my rides…my 14s4p GA battery could be the limiter though…or the 14awg wires that connect to the Shark mount. I’m replacing with them with copper, not CCA, 10awg. and to both connections, not just the outer pos and neg.
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Karl,
Took your advice and weaseled a 50 amp controller from Luna. I checked the settings and it was set at 25A. It wouldn’t take a number higher than 30. Do I need different software to program it?
Thanks
Pete
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No, 30Amps on the Ludicrous is equal to 60Amps . Run it at 25 first to see if you like it, then bump it to 30 (60) and let the wheelies fly.
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Will do! Thanks!
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Karl,
What do you think about running two 52V Luna Sharks in parallel with the ludicrous controller?
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Running packs in parallel is dangerous because the packs need to be very close in voltage when you plug them in or they will instantly equalize and could go boom. Get a 50 Amp cont soft pack.
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Appreciate your wisdom. I do not need to blow myself up. Thank you.
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Install Shottky diodes. That will prevent them from equalizing.
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I’m new to the ebike arena. Just bought a KHS 4 Season 1000 from Luna. Still awaiting shipment. Been doing TONS of research and really glad to have found Karl through the research and Luna Cycle shortly there after. Hope to contribute words after actually getting my butt on the bike!
That being said…is there an inside joke about the Ludicrous name for this Luna 2500W controller?
I’m totally thinking of “Ludicrous Speed” from Spaceballs – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0
Or is that really the joke!?
Been researching that too with no results!
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Who knows how Eric’s mind works. It was probably that or the Tesla Ludicrous mode. He knows Elon.
Karl
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Cool on the quick response there Karl!
In any case…just bought the 4 Season 1000 with the Ludicrous a few days ago. After reading an article or two I really wish they offered a 50 amp battery with the thing at check out.
I really think I’m kinda Luna’s prime audience when you talk about new ebiker’s, spreading the word and making sure you get good value for what you pay. I’d really like to see them offer a battery fully capable of running the Ludicrous at checkout for a bit of discount like they usually do.
I honestly wouldn’t have had enough for it anyway right now but it sounds like the first upgrade I’ll be making when I’m able.
I work at Goodwill and they pay peanuts for back breaking work…FYI
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Hi karl
i’m trying to buy the Luna banana e bike with the Ludicrous 2500 w ,
you are advising to get e 50 amp continuous output soft pack?
where can i find that?
it doesn’t come with the options?
do i have to buy it separately?
also your mentioning to get a bigger battery? witch one would work best?
please help
Thanks
Rocco.
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Call them. They will sell it to you in the configuration you want, I would get it with a 52v GA triangle. The softpack options for the Ludicrous have been taken off the website much to my chagrin.
Karl
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Being brand new to ebikes, I have no idea if this is a silly question or not, but why not replace the nylon gear with a cheap metal one that doesn’t melt?
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Great idea. Make one and I’ll buy it.
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My guess is that the designer/engineer opted for plastic/nylon as to prevent much wear from occurring on the mating gear and to keep noise to a minimum. The mating gear may be significantly more difficult or costly to replace.
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I have a custom mongoose build i recently completed and really want a ludicrous controller for her. Im using two briggs and stratton lawn mower battery in series to a 30 amp controller and I know she is limited by the stock controller not the battery pack! The build now is awesome but I need to upgrade the basic controller. Anyway I can snag a 60a controller from Eric? I can send you all the pics and details on the new build! She is impressive
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Contact Luna directly, or sign up for the email list and keep an eye on their Black Friday sales.
They rarely sell the Ludicrous controllers without selling a bike, although it does happen from time to time.
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The batteries are in *parallel*. Making 72v nominal 10ah pack with 5000rms
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A BBSHD (5.8kg?) and a triangle battery (8kg?) is a lot of kg for touring with, I was just wondering if reprogramming the BBSHD to run at a max amps of say 15a and 48v maxing out the watts at 720, could allow for a much lighter battery? For me the advantage of the BBSHD lies in its potential robustness and hence reliability rather than its peak power 😉
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