Lunacycle Releases Their 50Amp BBSHD That I’ve Been Testing For 6 Months (But You Gotta Buy The Whole Bike)

You have no idea how hard it has been to be quiet about secretly testing the 50 Amp custom controller for the BBSHD for the last 6 months. Every single person that has test driven my ebike has two questions.

How much and where can I get one?

Well after 6 months I finally have an answer for all of them. It costs a cool $3499 for a full suspension fat bike and it is available right here from Lunacycle. My biggest complaint about the BBSHD initially is that it is designed to run at much higher power than 30 Amps, although the nylon gear will quickly self destruct when driven with 65 Amps (as I proved here). When I first got Lunacycle’s custom BBSHD controller I started riding it at 40 Amps then slowly upped it to 50 Amps over the following months. At any moment I expected the motor or the nylon gear to self destruct, but that never happened, even when driving it really hard at full throttle (2500 Watts) on the highway for several minutes (not recommended). This article is about my experiences over the last 6 months with the 50 Amp Luna BBSHD controller and why I have chosen to stand behind Eric and support him over the last year as much as I can.

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The new full suspension fatty for $3499 (+$100 shipping) with a 11.5Ah PF 50 Amp cont pack paired with a custom 50 Amp BBSHD that you cannot get anywhere else

I currently have about 10 BBS02 drive units and 3 BBSHD units. The problem I have been having is that all that I want to ride is my single precious 50Amp BBSHD. Although the top speed is not much higher than the stock BBSHD, the power is 60% more than the stock BBSHD. When you lean on the throttle, especially from a standstill you can really feel it. When you are going up hills it also feels like a completely different drive unit. For the first several months I tested the 50 Amp BBSHD unit on my Rebel Scum build which is also a full suspension fatty sold by Bikes Direct. On the road at high speeds the crappy rear shock and geometry of the Sniper did not fare well with the extra power, but in the woods at lower speeds it was pretty manageable as long as the rear shock was pumped up to 200PSI before every ride. This was a limitation of the design of that donor bike frame and I have no idea how well the frame that Luna is using on the Ludicrous will work on the highway or in the woods. I have not ridden the Ludicrous ebike and I honestly have no idea how it will perform, this article is only about the performance of the 50 Amp BBSHD and nothing else.

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The custom controller has oversized cooling fins to help prevent mosfet failure and keep it cool

The 50Amp BBSHD easily hits 35mph and also climbs 10 degree grades at around 25mph if you are leaning on the throttle. With the stock 30 Amp BBSHD you can lean on the throttle all day long and the drive unit will not overheat or self-destruct. When you are running the stock 30 Amp unit at PAS level 9 then it tends to put out about 20 Amps continuous which is well within the capabilities of the design of the BBSHD. With the 50 amp BBSHD controller, I found that it was actually fun to ride at PAS level 9 and I could ride it up the steepest hills around without any fear of drive failure. At the highest PAS levels without a throttle the BBSHD does not really put out much more than 35 or 40 Amps. When you lean on the throttle you get the full 50 Amps (over 2500 watts) and if you use full throttle for several minutes on a steep hill with the 50 Amp BBSHD I’m quite certain you could get the nylon gear to melt (so don’t do it).

If you’re holding out for Lunacycle to sell the 50 Amp BBSHD on its own (and not mounted on a pre-existing bike) don’t hold your breath. Lunacycle has built their reputation as a mid drive kit dealer but they want to make a big splash in the ebike market and they have absolutely no plans to sell just a 50 Amp BBSHD direct to kit builders. For $3500 a full suspension fatbike with a 50 Amp BBSHD stands alone as far as ebike value. If you can point to a better deal for an ebike, I’d be very interested in knowing what it is.

After several months of trail riding with a 10 speed, I decided to mount the 50 Amp BBSHD on my Burning Chrome 3 speed IGH commuter. I found that I enjoyed having the BBSHD much more on that build than using the 3000W cyclone kit. It was not only much quieter but also it was great to have the PAS system so I could actually get some exercise around town. With the 50 Amp controller pedaling quickly seemed silly, as I would get up to cruising speed extremely fast. Suddenly it really annoyed me how slow all the cars were and I found myself riding even more recklessly than I usually do.

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The Ludicrous ships with the custom 42T Luna ring which is a must have for any BBSHD ebike

So why do I write articles about so many Lunacycle products?

A little over a year ago I wrote this article introducing Lunacycle.com when a loyal reader stumbled upon their site that had just popped up. Before I wrote that article I had already purchased about $10,000 worth of ebike gear from Alibaba, em3ev, Lectric Cycles, Empowered Cycles and a bunch of non-reputable Chinese vendors that I’m not even going to mention here. I had never met or talked to Eric at all and I had no idea who he was, although I was a pretty big fan of electricbike.com . Ron (spinningmagnets) made the introduction and over the last year Eric and I have become very close friends. Lunacycle has gone from not existing to being the biggest ebike kit dealer in the US in less than a year.

…let that sink in a minute.

Eric started with nothing and has built the biggest ebike kit company in less than a year.  There are a handful of ebike kit dealers that have recently united to try to undermine his business and stop Lunacycle.com. Instead of lowering their ridiculous 100+% markups and charging a competitive price like Eric does, they have decided that the best course of action is to try to drive him out of business. In all honesty, I find this attitude pretty reprehensible. They continue to spread lies and rumors about Lunacycle including:

  • His drive units are not production and are only pre-production or prototypes
  • His BBS02/BBSHD controllers have inferior mosfets
  • Their firmware is sub-standard
  • His batteries are re-purposed cells or are counterfeit
  • Luna does not stand behind the products they sell

Let me be perfectly clear. These statements are all lies. The BBSxx units that Luna buys are EXACTLY the same as other BBSxx drive units you buy from China or US-based dealers. It might have a different logo on the side of the drive unit, but they all come off the EXACT same production line. The only exception is the custom add-on Lunacycle sells like the controller for the 50 Amp BBSHD, the Luna Eclipse chainring, chainring adapters and other custom machined parts.

I stand behind Eric because he is honest and forthcoming about his products and he stands behind what he sells. He has worked hard to let me help test products that he plans to market in the real world, like the 50 Amp BBSHD controller. Other ebike kit dealers give me lots of empty promises, but when it comes to getting product to my door to test they come up short time and time again. When I order stuff from his website it actually ships the same day and arrives at my door in about a week. When I ordered stuff from China I often had to wait several months for it to arrive. If the price is the same then the choice is a no-brainer since I know that Eric will support his units every time there is a problem without any harassment or delay.

Unless Eric does something drastic to betray my trust I will continue to do everything I can to help Lunacycle.com grow to be the biggest ebike retailer in the world. The question I have for these ebike dealers that have united against Eric to protect their over-sized profit margins is this – “What do you have to lose by actually making an effort to compete instead of trying to marginalize Lunacycle with these smear campaigns?”

Luna has a very loyal fan base that grows every day, and I am happy to say that I am a part of it.

Eric’s sights are now clearly pointed at becoming the largest ebike dealer in the USA. I believe he can do it, and it will probably happen faster than anyone expects. If you bet against Lunacycles you will probably lose.

Ride On.

73 thoughts on “Lunacycle Releases Their 50Amp BBSHD That I’ve Been Testing For 6 Months (But You Gotta Buy The Whole Bike)

    • Hopefully EM3EV/Paul is not one of those united against Eric. They ARE still competitively priced, and were my go-to vendor before Luna came along. But Eric is the real deal, and I’m happy to give him my business and send my few customers to him.

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  1. There is no united front and most of the “lies” are just conjecture mixed with some overly suspicious views. From my experience in talking with resellers, every single lie comes from a single vendor. I have it all in an email from that reseller.

    The same vendor was once lauded, and recommended, here on my favorite eBike blog. Karl and I actually had a discussion about them.

    Let’s move forward and get over the conspiracy theories. There’s enough of them in Facebook memes. I can’t find a single post anywhere perpetrating those lies. Only emails to customers from Lectric.

    I CAN find a poke where someone indicated another vendor was selling pre-production, but that’s old enough to have been buried months ago. PLEASE stop spreading the ill will. There is no conspiracy of vendors against Luna.

    Will vendors organize to be able to buy at better prices in order to compete? I should think it would be good business to do just that. Monopolies aren’t good for any business or consumer. Competition is what turns the wheels.

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  2. @Karl: I’m glad to see you are so open regarding your friendship with Eric and Lunacycle.
    I like both Lunacycle and Electricbike-blog, but are you not afraid your readers might think you are biased towards Luna when reviewing ebike kits etc.?
    After realizing how electricbike.com, lunacycle.com and now electricbike-blog.com works together, are you not afraid of conflict of interests?

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    • Eric sells me a lot of stuff and sometimes sends me stuff to test like the 50 amp controller because he knows how hard I thrash on stuff. I have always been honest and forthcoming with my relationship with Eric. If other vendors stepped up the way Eric has (like Biktrix or Tangent) I’m more than happy to review their products.

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  3. I’m really happy to see this new 50A controller for the BBSHD. Looks great, and reviews are good!
    I have been waiting for it a long time now, so I have to say I am really disappointed not being able to buy one.
    I write this as I’m trying to wrap my head around why Luna will not offer this great controller to their customers. How can they benefit from not selling this controller to all the previous BBSHD buyers out there who want to upgrade, without having to buy a fatbike at the same time.
    If this is due to limited production abilities, I get it! If not, and i’ts just for promoting their new ebikes, I really don’t get it.
    If they won’t sell this 50A controller separate just to make a big ebike pr splash, i don’t think that is very nice to their excising and potentially new customers.

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    • Luna developed this controller and covered the expenditure. It an asset. A unique one that is extraordinary desirable. It’s a significant enough feature to sell bikes, and if you want one, Luna Cycles is the place to go. They have developed a hot new product. Great move. Huge opportunity to grow the Luna brand.

      If the 50A controller or motor were freely available, anybody could buy them to assemble and sell ‘their own’ 50A BBSHD bikes.

      I’d want to keep that advantage for my own branded bikes, too, if I was the proprietor. Smart move.

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      • Thumbs up for Luna developing this great product that everybody seems to want so badly, including me.
        Smart move investing time and money in a product they can sell sh##loads of, with almost whatever profit they like. People will buy it anyways.
        For sure, most people are buying bbshd as a kit and not as a complete e-bike.
        I understand that Luna wants to kickstart their e-bike commitment and needs a BIG selling point to push this ‘cheapo’ fatbike into the market, I just think they could sell and earn a lot more by selling them separately as this is what most people wants. I think only selling them as a complete e-bike to promote the Luna brand, is an egoistic act and not what most people would want them to.

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      • There’s a difference in buying just one 50 amp controller for one’s own purpose and fun versus buying a thousand 50A controller units to assemble and sell 50A BBSHD bikes. It’s all about proportions… Like many others here, I’m not interested in selling ebikes. Already being a client of Luna I think they do great business and I’d like to encourage them even more in the future. I’d just want to by one of those controllers separately. Of course I could always go with the phase runner sine wave controller (74V and 50A) and try to machine an aluminium casing to bolt it in place of the original BBSHD controller on the BBSHD but I want to keep the PAS system and my bafang display so… I’m kinda stuck here. The 12 Fet edge controller also does not integrate with the bafang PAS. So for 3500 buck. I might just just buy another bike and install a cyclone 18 kW mos drive motor like Batman of Inglewood LOL. I also wonder, can I beef up my 30 amp controller and improve the heat dissipation of the controller. Anyhow, the most simple way would just be to buy lunas 50 A controller if i could.

        Matador.

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      • I did not test it with that pack. I tested it with several 48 and 52v packs that all put out 50 amps.

        That pack the bike is sold with I’m not crazy about. The BMS is 50Amps cont but the cells are only rated for 10. You can probably get close to 50 amps for short bursts with that pack but it’s not going to do 50 Amps cont for very long. This is one of the valid complaints that people have against some of the smaller Luna packs. There will be a custom triangle pack coming that will be over 17 Ah. If you want more power you might want to wait for that pack before pulling the trigger on the Ludicrous. It will cost $200-300 more for the higher Ah pack.

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  4. I think Luna would make a lot more profit by selling the new controller for $400-$500 each, rather than the complete bike for $3500. Unless they lack the production capability to produce large numbers of the new controller.

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  5. Always been impressed how dedicated Eric is to promote electric bikes. I think this is a smart move to come up with such upgraded controller but not so much with the idea of just offering it as a complete bike but I do respect their choice to do so. Time and pressure from customers and others who will come up with alternate solutions will tell if they will sell the units alone.

    Being a Canuck I had to turn to Roshan at Biktrix to get my fix… currency exchange rate + import/duty fees are just killing us here in Canada.

    Now if they can all get back from Interbike to ship my BBSHD !

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  6. I think that the reason being is because 50 amps is quite a lot more power compared to 30 so it would be dangerous if some one put in a new 50 amp controller on a bbsHD with 30 amp controller, the bike might not be able to handle it maybe in testing a bike broke in 1/2 or serious chain problems or bad gearing could burn it up and Eric doesn’t want that to happen to his customers.

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  7. Yeah I saw this coming… after all that 3000w bbshd business!

    I must say, this is quite an innovative idea to integrate a 50 amp controller on a BBSHD… BUT it is a $4000 bike once you get a legitimate battery pack (and why the heck are they still using PF cells?! this is 2016 people!). If for some reason you want a small pack with high power, at least build it with good cells, like the HG2 or 30Q or GA) Luna is selling it with the PF not because it is the best cell, but because it is dirt cheap and maximizes profit margins. In my opinion, it is simply not a balanced system because of the short battery life at that high power. Even a 17.5 AH battery will only last about ~30 mins of hard riding. Another very imbalanced thing about this bike is the reliability. Do not expect bike components (in general) to last if you run them over 1500w… What I would like to see is an upgraded (bike-side) drive-train to go with that powerful motor.

    We also must consider the practicality of such a vehicle. It is not legal to use on streets or trails, so where does one go to ride it? Your back yard only? I’ve ridden my BBSHD for ~2000 miles on the road, so i’m hypocritical in this regard, but it is something to consider.

    Someone needs to make a drop-in Adaptto controller upgrade for the BBSxx motors. Or sell it as a complete rig. That would solve the problem for us DIYers who have been neglected by Luna on this particular product development.

    This whole high-power e-bike thing causes me to step back and consider what an e-bike over 1000w really is… is it a motorcycle with pedals? Like a moped, or what? Why are there pedals if you only contribute ~10% of the power?

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  8. No question Luna is an excellent company. I, as well, admire Eric. I guess I don’t read or hear much outside electricbike.com and here, but I’ve never heard otherwise. (I’ve got a couple of Luna sourced BBS02’s and batteries pushing 2000 miles. Not one problem. Hard mountain-biking miles too.) I’ve very seldom needed any other vendor for anything.

    Also no question a 50amp BBSHD looks pretty fun. But, along the lines of Super_Ped’s comments, what’s running through my mind is how these bikes are going to affect my ability to ride my ostensibly legal BBS02 on my local trails. So far (past year or so) I never really get a second look, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in the USFS (or any other organization) to put much thought into distinguishing what’s a “reasonable” ebike and what’s not. They’re just gonna do what’s easiest. Lump em in with “motor-vehicles”. The CA state legislature wrote a pretty good law, but the USFS and our other local trail managers aren’t bound to it. I hate to be a chicken-little but I’m kind of expecting the worst.

    Luna could really help me here out with some easy-does-it PR.

    Another great article Karl. Thanks. Keep it up man.

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    • i think about it all the time….. i dont want to be the guy who ruins it for everybody. For so many years me and my friends had a secret…. i hate being the one to let the cat out of the bag. BUt then again the more butts on ebikes the better. You gotta admit that an ebike on a recreational off road trail does not make much sense arugment wise…. it never did…. as a transportation deivice and one less car it is a good argument. But i feel you …i love riding on the trails…just go super stealth and nobody will know any better.

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      • I can only argue that what you do with it is what makes the difference. I like to use my ebike to cover some real distance on public land. Get back into remote areas fairly quickly. I’d say that using 300-500w or so of pedal-assist to get to the top of a 20% grade doesn’t put an ebiker into a different category of recreation than a “p-biker”. But using 2000w of throttle through 4″ knobbies to power up the same trail does. Stealth entails how you ride as well as what you ride.

        I guess this is the same line of reasoning that “p-bikers” use to hate on ebikers, but I don’t think the USFS is going to bother to distinguish. That would entail too much work. (I was pretty amazed the state law of CA actually does) If people ride “over-powered” ebikes off-road on public land, the authorities aren’t going to use technical distinctions like wattage or power assist, el. al., to determine compatibility, they’re gonna just use “motor/no-motor.”

        This probably sounds pretty condescending. But I’m just humbly requesting Luna not to market ebikes using “powerful,off-road machine” kind of words and images. That is working against us.

        But again, I’m totally digging what you are doing Eric. Growing pains and all.

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  9. Yeah, they just closed our forest trails to all ebikes because of concerns about the environment, safety, and the impact on other mountain bike riders. An ebike is defined as less than 500 Watts of power, has pedals, an off switch, and goes less than 20 mph in B.C. I guess you guys with the big power should go ride on the dirt bike trail because you are now riding motorbikes.

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  10. So..who is the intended market for these motors with bike that are declared off road racing and private landowners who are going to buy this 50amp motors? Real racers? Tech savy people? What racer is going to buy a bicycle that has DNM shock? no they will probably get a cyclone 7500 or Tangent Asent or something with real power. What tech savy person is going to want non bluto forks. I am not even sure what type of forks those are .. steel? No name frame? For $3500. Is that being price competitive or forward thinking? There is an ebike builder here in my town. People buy a bike from the local store for 450 dollars and he puts a BBS02 in it and builds his own batteries. He sells mostly to older people. Are these people going to want a 50amp upgrade on a BBSHD? No and they would never buy the bike either. So this is in reality a tiny niche market just for the BBSHD, even smaller for those who want the upgrade and even smaller with a bike that is not a brand. Who really wants a 50amp controller upgrade? Me and people like me who are either DIY or looking to save a buck by buying a Boris or Boris Evil for 999 or 1699 respectively and adding a $669 Luna kit and $500 dollar battery for $2169 or $2869. I would never buy the bike Luna is selling period and to go from 30 amp to 50 would not entice me to get a bike I don’t want in the first place for a lot more money. If Eric is honest with himself he will see the logic behind this. I am getting another bike here soon. Will I still buy my new motor from Luna?… Yes, I want them to succeed. I will not be happy that he won’t sell me the upgrade but oh well, he still has a good value, good reputation for motors and batteries. What I see happening is he will sell the units as a bolt on upgrade, which I won’t buy because i don’t want to even look inside the motor or he will install them as an upgrade on the kit. Which I would buy but he better hurry if he wants my business. Next year there will be new bikes out from Direct Bikes and I will order my new motor at that time with or without the 50amp upgrade, after that, I won’t be a prospect for buying one. He may not care because volume will be so limited that he will only sell at a super high price which would eliminate me as a buyer anyway. But I will never buy the bike he selling. If Direct Bikes sold a decent full suspension fat bike. Sure I would buy it but not a Luna fat bike or even a Direct Bikes flex frame full suspension fat bike. I would buy one of these fat bike frames but it looks like the BBSHD would hang down too low on the frame and I don’t know if carbon fiber would hold up.

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  11. Oh, forgot the link for the carbon fiber fat bike frame. https://www.amazon.com/ICAN-Frame-Carbon-Suspension-Spacing/dp/B01I1CTR1G/
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GV1A542/
    If you bought this frame for $1050, and Direct Bikes Boris the Evil Brute sprung for parts $1699 total $2850 and a $669 BBSHD total 3418, put it together yourself and it is still less than Lunas bike. You just have to buy a battery. Or you could try to buy the parts instead of the Boris, I was just too lazy to look up all the parts. But I would do that before I bought that bike for $3499. Maybe I am crazy but that seems logical to me.

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  12. I own a BBSHD kit from Luna.

    I love this kit so much I don’t have much to say against them – but – yes there is a but – their support is terrible. And I mean the worst I ever had from ANY online dealer I have ever dealt with.

    The battery pack dimensions on the site were wrong and they gave me the impression I could ship it back to get an exchange if I’d pay the shipping. So I left my job sooner, went to ups, packed the battery then they realized I need the proper paperwork to ship a battery… So, after much back in forth, decided to find a new frame instead. OK, so far, not their fault besides that they should know I can’t properly (as in legally) ship a battery… Come-on!

    Then, came the time to charge that battery after enjoying the first rides… Charger was DOA, and it took them forever to acknowledge the problem, then said they shipped a replacement, never got tracking, then asked again, realized I had to ship the deffective charger first, then woops they actually shipped one… wtf? Are they on crack or something? Anyways the new charger works fine annnnd now I’m back to having lots of fun with the kit :p

    So, bottom line, great kits, as long as you don’t have issues with them 🙂

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    • sorry about that….

      thats just a matter of once its out of our cart we are not as good. we wanted to get you your charger as fast as possible…that was probably someone on top intervening when we heard your plight. But once you are outside of the cart we arent as good as providing tracking etc….we made an exception for you and sent you the charger without recieving the dead one first….not many do that. We do it all the time.

      Also regarding battery shippiing…..legally shipping lithium batteries is a bitch…welcome to our world.

      We probably also offered you a good discount to keep the battery….because shipping lithium is sooo expensive.

      But we are working to improve our customer service trust me….. i am sorry you went through all that but glad you got on the road. We do whatever we can to get our new customers on the road as fast as possible

      and we should really make sure our adds our accurate and we have several proof readers now double checking everything.

      Thanks for sticking with us and giving us another chance. I promise next time will be better. We have had a lot of growing pains but we are doing our best to be the best ebike dealer available.

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    • I had great customer support interactions with Luna. I got a DOA charger and they shipped a replacement right away. I had a speed sensor “issue” AKA my fault, and their tech guy Seb was answering emails on saturday nights and walking me through troubleshooting steps. Yeah, I was upset for a minute about the charger, but they made it right.

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      • I have had a couple of charger snafus but emails were readily answered and immediate replacement parts were sent free of charge. It seems as if there is someone there nearly 24 hours a day??? I have had responses at weird hours of the night.

        In any case, just ordered my third BBSHD kit and recommended that a friend buy 2 more which I installed for him.

        For now I’m sticking with identical kits for part swapping and trouble shooting capability. The BBSHD kits from Luna are pretty hard to beat for the performance, the price, the service, and the ready availability…. I live in California.

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  13. BBSHD does not fit on carbon frame, I wish it would. It was mentioned in passing on an article on this site a while back I believe. The frame around the bottom bracket is too thick on a carbon, or something to that effect. BTW you can get carbon fatties for (much?) less than 1K USD, see appropriately named megathread on mtbr forum.

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  14. Luna will be offering its own drive system soon capable of this kind of power for kit buyers….. more suitable than the BBSHD and at the same price range.

    The BBSHD is not ours to mess with….. we need to worry about what happens if a lot of people burn up the bbshd and start criticizing bafang for unreliablity.

    For sure the BBSHD is less reliable the more power you pump through it…. and when you add all the amps for users who dont get it ….they will fry it (climbing a big hill in high gear).

    This is exactly what happened with the BBS02….. people overclocked it and it roasted the nylong gears a lot and the rumour got around that the bbs02 was unreliable. Very unfair for bafang.

    The owner of bafang hates that his drives are being reprogrammed.

    The bbshd already has a reputation of being unreliable and unsupported by dealers who are not capable of servicing it and dont understand it. Believe it or not its true outside of the luna arena. What happens when these other dealer customers figure out a way to buy our controller and fry their motor and try to send it back for support?

    The BBSHD is bafangs product, and is a solid product…if luna had its own mid drive we would gladly offer the high performance to everyone (not just bike buyers) …. and that will soon happen.

    Please dont take your expensive BBSHD’s and plug home made external controllers to them….. you will just burn them out. We have been there and done that. (read bafang project x story)

    We took a lot of time to ensure that our bbshd controller would maintain the integrity and the ruggedness of the regular drive system. Of course its less reliable and requires a better battery etc….but we feel better when we build the complete bike with rugged components quality chain etc.

    Also honestly…. the bbshd is powerful enough at 30 amps…. at 50 amps you will need a better battery, a better driveline and only to get 20-30 percent more performance. (the boost in wattage does not provide incremental performance increase)

    There are many who dont want to see 2500 watt bikes on our trails and streets and I feel where they are coming from.

    We have had this controlller for 6 months…… we are trying to be responsible here…. i know we can sale the hell out of them……. Honestly i am not all about sellling or i would have released these in some rebranded bbshd kit…..

    That being said….the good people who have been super loyal and supportive of us and people we trust ….. I am sending controllers out complimentary…..

    This controller is special….. and my goal is not just to make money from this …… i want to be a positive influence on the industry i believe highly in.

    I could horror out the controllers….or i can keep them special….. something we give to loyal luna people…..and people who invest in helping us by buying one of our bikes at a crical stage when we are trying to build our company as a bike brand.

    We are a new company…..and our controller is special…… we want to keep it special for a few people…..and not just people with money to buy our complete bike….but also people who have made significant contributions to this forum and have supported us from the beginning and have shown they are knowledgable and careufl and will use the controller with respect and not abuse it.

    Trust me ….. the bbshd is awesome at 30 amps…… the 50 amps is a bit over the top….

    I dont know …… this is stupid…. but let me end with one of my favorite quotes:

    With great power comes great responsibility – Spiderman’s granpa

    ERIC

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    • “Luna will be offering its own drive system soon capable of this kind of power for kit buyers….. more suitable than the BBSHD and at the same price range.”

      Please try to keep it quiet like the BBSHD. I would buy a Cyclone or a Tangent right now if they were quiet. If you are trying to build a motorcycle, 98db is fine, but you are limited to motorcycle trails and no or very few bicycles can keep up with a 450cc mx bike. But I think a market for good power and low noise that could be used on a bike trail is there. The BBSHD allows me access to trails I cannot ride my 450 mx motorcycl on, but it would be nice if the bicycle had more power. Perhaps I will order the mighty mini 30t, the only downside is I still want to pedal and be able to assist the motor and exercise is the main reason I ride a bicycle. I am also afraid of breaking things including the frame and drive train which seem prevalent with this chain ring. I wish you success Eric. I hope you sell a lot of bikes.

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      • quiet is a priority for me as well…. i couldnt agree more. I hated the optibike for example because of its noise….and i stopped my plans of a developing an astro powered bike (like the tangent) a few years ago because the motor was just too noisy. Its really bad to ride a noisy bike on a public trail… as sure way to get other bikers and hikers to hate you.

        Like

    • Eric wrote, “and our controller is special…… we want to keep it special for a few people”

      Oh to be special. I almost had one…. I’d still like to see one in my mailbox. Pretty please?

      Like

    • If you can mount inside the frame or around the bb like e-ram/bikee, keep it quiet, add a torque sensor and retain retrofitability for most existing bikes I think there is a massive untapped market. Once these things are discreet and offer brose/bosch levels of bionic legged biker for retrofit drives, suddenly everyone will start to realize you can turn flat trails and a downhill bike with sticky tyres into a bike park. I don’t think it would take much for the debate to move from electric moped to green uplift in the more mainstream scene, just quiet unobtrusive drives on existing bikes

      Like

  15. As for the reasons why Luna is choosing to only sell this controller as part of a complete bike:

    His business model (as of today anyway) is built around selling Bafang products. He needs to keep Bafang happy. They are mostly concerned with reliability. “Hot-rodding” their stuff doesn’t really benefit them at all. Eric has mentioned more than once that they don’t even like user-reprogramming. They probably will tolerate “hot-rodding” if they’re selling lots of stuff to Luna, but not if it leads to bad press (like reports of BBS02s “failing”.) It would be a disaster for them if BBSHDs started getting rumored to be “unreliable”, even though they were just abused.

    Selling that controller as part of a “Luna Bike” puts less onus on Bafang and more on Luna. Probably better for everybody.

    Like

  16. Great read.

    I just want to say that as much as I want one of these new controllers (really, really bad), I have to respect Eric for his decision not to make these readily available. From what little I know of the ebike world, I don’t think there’s anyone else in a better position to make that call. This clearly isn’t a money grab either, assuming the production capability is there, it would be way easier (and probably more profitable) to sell just the controllers to existing bbshd owners. I’m pretty sure there’s a way bigger diy market for these by themselves than there is for prebuilt ebikes at this price point.

    I’m wondering if maybe there’s a way to offer them only to existing Luna customers who bought their kits before these were available (like me!), kind of in the same way as the Luna Eclipse chainring?

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Alan Hu (electricrt) has stated that the BBSHD has an internal temperature sensor that is located in the windings. This is the first that I have heard anyone speak of this. Could this be why the BBSHD has been so reliable? Does the stock BBSHD have thermal limiting to protect the motor? Does the Luna 50 amp BBSHD have thermal limiting to protect the motor?

    Like

  18. Here is a thread on modifying a BBSHD controller:
    https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83778&p=1239980#p1239980
    Ebikes4Real states: “The standard BBSHD controller is fitted with pretty low end mosfets from the factory (P75NF…). Not the same IRFB3077 as come fitted in the 750W BBS02.”

    Does Luna modify existing BBSHD controllers to get 50 amps? Or is it a custom design?
    If Luna’s controller is NOT a modified BBSHD controller, why does it still have a 60 volt limit?
    Does Luna’s controller use 3077 mosfets rated at 210amps, or does it use P75NF mosfets rated at 80 amps?

    Like

    • That killed the conversation. It seems all early, up to May were 75 series FET’s. There is mo MOSFET claim for the kits but even the first BBSHD controller with Anderson connectors is listed as 3077 as a replacement..
      It would be nice if someone let the market know what gives. Can we buy a 3077 controller with the kits? Are both replacements 3077 FET’s? Does it matter? So far I can only confirm that the eRad is the only 3077 kit.
      Luna?

      Like

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